by mmayberry on 1/8/18, 6:47 PM with 463 comments
by nakedrobot2 on 1/8/18, 7:22 PM
France's new rule (no smartphones in schools - no exceptions) is genius, and I applaud them for that.
What is a supercomputer in your pocket, with access to a significant portion of the sum total of human knowledge, good for, for most people?
Playing fucking candy crush.
We wish that we, humans, were better, but we are not.
So what can we do about it? I have no idea. The economic model already exists for games and facebook, and so on. And people have since the beginning of time been amused by trivial entertainment.
I guess the fact of the matter, or one way of looking at it is, there will always be people who choose trivial entertainment, and there will always be folks who chase knowledge and self improvement. And now, like always, we can do both of those things. But at least now, we can quantify ourselves better, and know more about the benefits and risks. And in that way, maybe more of us will choose to improve ourselves with these amazing tools.
by powrtoch on 1/8/18, 8:59 PM
"Smartphone use takes about the same cognitive toll as losing a full night's sleep"
Would love to see this study, since it sounds completely implausible (but really important if true). Without looking at the research, the only reasonable course of action is to assume it's false.
by munchbunny on 1/8/18, 7:44 PM
There are serious methodological problems with that study that lead to the convenient conclusion that humans on average have a shorter attention span than a goldfish. It's a sexy conclusion, but if you think about it for a moment there are so many implied assumptions in that claim. Chief among them is the issue that attention span tends to be heavily task dependent, so what does the average actually mean?
Here's a link to a BBC article that specifically discusses the attention span statistic: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-38896790
by leggomylibro on 1/8/18, 7:39 PM
1. Persistence
2. The means to set aside time for that persistence.
3. Luck
Number 2 is what most people tend to lack. Especially in our current climate, most people are mentally, physically, and financially exhausted by the ostensibly simple act of getting through a day and making sure that their existence is stable for the next month or so.
But let's say that we get to a point where your average person can have 1-3 hours every day to comfortably spend on their dreams. How much of that time would be spent right now on social media or idly flipping through some other form of cheap but nicely-diced and easy-to-digest content?
Probably most of it. But isn't that exactly what people already said about television and video games and stuff? Isn't it possible that that 'wasted' downtime is actually important to peoples' mental health? Maybe, but personally I think that social media has the comparative drawback that instead of relaxing you like other forms of entertainment, it probably makes you more stressed out. The article sure thinks that 'it's different this time.' And that makes for a vicious cycle of uselessness.
But at the same time, I also think that smart devices can be extremely useful - speaking of attention, how great is it to not have to remember things like 'what is the density of steel' or 'what sort of communication protocol does this chip use' while still being able to access that information in under a few seconds? That should be something that anyone can access cheaply and without artificial barriers.
So I guess attention is probably just going to be another commodity with staggering inequality of access. When you think about it, that's really fucked up; a person's mind and body should be the alpha and omega of their unalienable possessions, don't we hold anything sacred? How long until we're paying to turn off Harrison-Bergeron-style rigs?
by bello on 1/9/18, 6:28 AM
It argues that the main reason we don't achieve our goals is not external factors, or the lack of an effective productivity system; it's a commitment failure. We have subconscious second thoughts whether our goals are actually important to us, we lack a sense of purpose.
"There is no point being focused, with a finely tuned productivity system, and maniacal discipline against distractions, if you're not sure what you're doing is worth doing"
So sure, our attention span is decreasing and we're becoming more easily distracted, but is that all there is to blame for the alleged productivity loss?
by WmyEE0UsWAwC2i on 1/8/18, 8:36 PM
I'm specially refering to YouTube here. Take for example the "cell biology" subject. In a few videos ahead you'll start getting non-scientific videos, as "recommendations".
Suffices to say that those videos speak about widely discredited life theories but with nicer stories.
These recommendations exploit the human brain in ways that even the creators can not comprehend.
We could, for example, use these technologies to teach children to solve equations. Use ML to find the optimal, user specific, series of teaching material that takes a child from zero to "can solve any equation involving +,-,* or /". But no, "we don't have the resources". Ah! want to go from cell biology to cute animations of pidgeons? Yes, we have de optimal path to get you there for free on YouTube.
by Rudism on 1/8/18, 9:06 PM
> Lactation consultants in Canada and the United States have begun noticing the prevalence of women texting and scrolling through their phones while they breastfeed, breaking valuable eye contact with their baby.
Normally I'm in the skeptic camp on this issue. That screens are just the new generation's version of comic books or rock and roll rotting the minds of our youth, and headlines like these are making a mountain out of a molehill.
But that bit about mothers making less eye contact with their babies while breast feeding kind of made me do a double take. I could see real psychological damage coming from stuff like that and the broader idea that parents using devices and neglecting their kids more is the real problem (as opposed to those other boogey-men, where it was the kids' usage that was the problem).
by crispinb on 1/8/18, 9:14 PM
It was perhaps predictable that a society with greed as its primary organising principle would end up deploying new tech like this. But the sheer speed and comprehensiveness of the takeover has been breathtaking.
by rising-sky on 1/8/18, 10:21 PM
If that's true, that's pretty genius and downright scary!
by meesterdude on 1/8/18, 8:14 PM
What helped me, is backing away from services. Uninstall apps from your phone and use a web browser to visit them. You don't have to stop using them if you don't want to, just make them harder to get to and less noisy.
My phone is mostly for texts and phone calls now, and I don't do much else with it.
by SubuSS on 1/8/18, 8:58 PM
IMO - The latter is also mental clutter: There is a limit to # of information that will be useful - it is best to collect information relevant to your current pursuits now and leave the rest of the world for later (to an extent: you probably want to keep tabs on the overall sitch though). Bingeing on HN or other useful sites all day instead of focussing on your current goals is almost the same - a different dopamine hit, that's all.
by rflrob on 1/8/18, 7:59 PM
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/259062-if-men-learn-this-it...
by agumonkey on 1/8/18, 7:15 PM
it's surprising that something "liberating" ends up backfiring that way, not that surprising but still a bit considering how hyped up it was not long ago.
by reggieband on 1/8/18, 8:05 PM
I also recall reading that we have changed because of reading and note taking. Yet here we are.
So while it may be fair to say "changing" it is harder for me to accept "damaging". Our species adapts to new circumstances and if the new circumstance is a distracting world then calling adaptation "damaging" seems unhelpful.
by unabst on 1/8/18, 10:28 PM
There is nothing "smartphone" about games. A board game, a video game, or even sports is a game that is fun and engaging that anyone can do together, as is any smartphone game.
There is nothing "smartphone" about the news or social media or email. These have all been here, and just moving them to our pockets alone can't be that damaging.
And there is nothing "smartphone" about ads or paid content or even facebook likes.
What's "smartphone" is the immediacy and the frequency of the connectivity. It's the bond that is stronger -- and hence the more of us more strongly bound to our phones.
But this alone can't be damaging. It's just amazing. What is damaging are the businesses, and people mind you, that abuse this bond. Ourselves included.
So what we really have is a new tool that just gives us more of what we want faster.
Of course this is game changing. Of course this is dangerous. But whether we let this damage us is still a choice. And at the end of the day, a lot of it is just people abusing and damaging people. It's clear we can't help ourselves. But we can also help ourselves, which is what most of these articles appear to be about.
The point being, demonizing smartphones is just shifting blame. Getting rid of them is getting rid of the problem, not finding a solution. With the overarching point being, they themselves are not that dangerous.
They can't be.
Or maybe I'm still missing something...
by StanislavPetrov on 1/8/18, 9:58 PM
by intrasight on 1/9/18, 4:42 AM
My personal hope is that 5" screens are a passing fad. We've only had them for a few years, and I am hopeful that we'll only have them for a few more. Then we switch to AR. And again we'll have big screens, and developers will hopefully be inspired to create programs that support creation and exploration and discovery.
So don't blame "digital". Blame the narrow interface channel and the easy money of ad-driven social media. I am of the opinion that those types of apps will not hold the attention of users once we have high-fidelity interfaces. We will be able to blame developers (ourselves) if the programs we create and use aren't up to the potential. How about a virtual wood-working shop? How about space-filling virtual instruments? How about apps to crowd-solve some tough societal problems?
My smartphone is much more engaging than was the TV I grew up with (three channels and bad commercials). I think there will be great creator-geared apps in the future, and great user-created content. We do have to make sure that creators of virtual art and goods can profit from their work. Do that, and people will be eager to fill the vacuum of cyberspace.
by zitterbewegung on 1/8/18, 7:18 PM
I don’t think it is true for everyone .
I like texting people or using a messaging service . Yesterday I hanged out with my friend to code I wouldn’t have done that if I didn’t have a cell phone.
Today I used my phone to aid in my work activities .
Frequently I use my cell phone to write down notes about ideas during the day and learn new things (ML and program synthesis).
But, I know that I have bad habits that the author says in the text. I think you should take a balanced approach . Moderation is always a good idea .
by reubenswartz on 1/8/18, 11:17 PM
"In an information-rich world, the wealth of information means a dearth of something else: a scarcity of whatever it is that information consumes. What information consumes is rather obvious: it consumes the attention of its recipients. Hence a wealth of information creates a poverty of attention and a need to allocate that attention efficiently among the overabundance of information sources that might consume it."
Btw, this was from 1971. ;-)
by peatmoss on 1/8/18, 8:27 PM
The main thing keeping me from trying it as an experiment, is that I use my phone primarily for mobility (transit schedules, Car2go, ReachNow, lyft, bikeshare, etc.). And it appears that the majority of the services I use don't have watch apps.
by LesZedCB on 1/8/18, 9:40 PM
Pretty much every single one of us commented on how that made the trip so much better. I personally felt so relieved by the disconnect and wished I could stay that way. Just a small anecdote.
by ajcm on 1/9/18, 1:32 PM
The same was true during every major human revolution. We no longer have the attention span of our ancestors, but that's because it doesn't make sense to have so much of it. Nature goes for the lowest energy state, so if you introduce something that takes over for you then your brain is going to put that previous work to some other use.
There is no better or worse when it comes to this stuff, it's all just conditions of our present situation.
Is reduced attention span bad? Only if the world loses all the progress it's made. Which is a possibility, but a reduced attention span is the least of our worries if society collapses.
This is just fear mongering as usual. Humans are defined by our incredible ability to adapt. We're going to just keep on doing that, like the previous 100,000 years.
by snakeboy on 1/8/18, 10:28 PM
It is a pet peeve of mine when these kinds of casual exaggerations enter into a statistic. An increase by a factor of ~2.55 is quite far from a factor of 3.
I could argue the global population has nearly tripled since 1959 [1]. This is a rounding of similar proportions, which would lead you to believe there are 9 billion people on Earth rather than 7.6 billion.
That sleight of hand incurrs an error of 1.4 billion people.
[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/world-population-to-hit-mi...
by ppbutt on 1/9/18, 8:10 AM
I've tried talking to him about it, saying I can hardly talk to him (if ever) and he completely defends his position, saying he uses phone to keep in touch with friends, notifications admitedly feel good, etc.
Any suggestions?
by S7012MY on 1/8/18, 7:51 PM
by ambivalents on 1/8/18, 8:46 PM
I'm aware of the organization Time Well Spent led by Tristan Harris, and have signed up to volunteer (but have not heard back). In the meantime, what can I do as an individual? This is something I've grown to really care about, but am not sure what to do on an individual level besides my own damage-mitigation tactics (deleting FB, etc.)
by mark_l_watson on 1/9/18, 10:33 AM
I try to use social media for just two things: 1) follow a few tech people who post interesting/useful links 2) promote my books or links to new blog articles I write
To engage friends and family I prefer phone calls or one to one email exchanges.
I have been using computers since the mid 1960s and the effect on society of small digital devices has been amazing to watch (and live through).
by jamest on 1/8/18, 10:25 PM
I recently purchased a light phone[1], which has been helpful in disconnecting. I have the option to leave my smartphone at home and I'm still reachable via a regular phone call.
[1] https://www.thelightphone.com/
note: I'm in no way affiliated w/Light Phone
by kashyapc on 1/8/18, 9:24 PM
Where we quoted studies and statistics in turns—"Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity"; in 2017, people spent over 4 hours a day (86 hours a month) staring at their phones, and so on.
I ended it with my favourite tip (that I've been exercising for 2 years): Put every goddamned thing and everyone on mute (i.e. no notifications), except your partner / "person you like the most" / SO.
The restored peace has been clarifying.
Edit: I barely use any applications, besides tools like train schedule look-up, English-to-Dutch dictionary, Maps and occasionally camera. And no "social media", besides the reasonable exception of limited HN minutes. (My phone—a four-year-old Nexus 5, which just underwent a battery replacement surgery by yours truly, saving a handsome 45€, and good to go for three more years with LineageOS.)
by acd on 1/9/18, 2:08 PM
Observering smart phone zombies, people walking around addicted to their smart phones not aware of their local immediate surroundings.
Social media is cashing in on the most valuable assets you have friends and family selling gained information as advertising. Thus we are addicted to selling information about ourselves. We are addicted to the dopamine reward of getting likes on social media.
New Years resolution try and use cell phones less as they are addictive. So far going so so.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and other industry insiders probably known about the addiction. That is why their children are not given cell phones.
Cell phone interruptions probably are a cause of shorter attention spans. Short attention span are not good when solving mental problems. People are taking ADHD attention like Ritalin,Adderol deficit order medicines to cope with short attention caused by smart phones.
Instead of being with local friends and family we are on our cellphones. Instead of watching movies together we watch personal streams on Netflix.
Cell phones are addictive.
by xlii on 1/9/18, 8:47 AM
Being unhumble, I think that us - rather intelligent crowd - can't really relate to people who are going to waste their time doing low-effort activities and find it way too terrifying that they do this. The only thing that shifts is what people spend their time on. Now it's smartphone, decade ago it was computers, another decade it was television and prior to that reading low-value romance/detective/horror fiction.
That's just how it is and it's always going to be low-value and maybe even damaging activities, but there is nothing we can do about it. The only thing we can do is measure it better, because smartphone is much better in gathering the data, than - for example - books are ;)
On the other hand I have 45 minutes of my phone screentime in last 24h so it might be, that I'm not seeing the issue, because I can't see the problem firsthand.
by kicarus on 1/8/18, 7:57 PM
I'm not saying smartphones are not damaging, but I think humans have always looked for ways to cut lose and that often means in ways that are unhealthy.
by creator_lol on 1/8/18, 8:54 PM
Introducing your kids to any technology is an excellent way to teach them responsibility and how technology can be used to increase their understanding of the world around them. But this would require you to spend time with your kids and guide them along their journey with enough freedom to make mistakes.
I have 2 kids 5 & 10 that started using phones at 2 years old. A couple of broken screen and a few dramatic crying fits, but I can trust both of them to use technology with respect. Of course the 5 year is still learning and that happens everyday. The 10 year old is amazing now at self control with usage of his phone while interacting with others.
I say start them early to learn good habits, but also demonstrate good habits in your household.
by ausjke on 1/8/18, 11:18 PM
Unlike previous new gadgets(TV, even internet), smartphone is so powerful that nothing in human history can match, basically, it stretches our very brain with this little super computer in the pocket at all fronts: be it knowledge, games, constant-on social network, it is just too much for the young.
They're as addictive as drugs to kids' brains, especially when considering teens should be learning the world around them at their age, now they stare at the little screen as much as they could. it makes kids dumber, more lonely, while feel good, the way how drugs work.
The phone makers, the router makers, the cellular operators need work together to give us a few kids mode for their online life, as soon as possible.
by GoToRO on 1/8/18, 7:44 PM
by lennydizzy on 1/8/18, 8:38 PM
by SomeHacker44 on 1/8/18, 9:48 PM
I can get tools on Android that allow me to limit app use, website access, and other things. The best I can do on Apple is take the phone away when the child shouldn't use it. I literally have two Apple phones (because I'm locked into the iMessage/Find my Friends ecosystem) - one with nothing but basic apps and locked down with Restrictions, and one which has all the games and stuff which he can play for a limited amount of time per day. Not fun.
Apple gives parent's vastly insufficient tools to monitor and manage their kids use of these devices.
by SamPutnam on 1/8/18, 8:23 PM
1. Shock & Denial - ...I was asked if I was 'sure about this' more than 10 times during the transfer and repeatedly dissuaded from making the "down"grade.
2. Pain & Guilt- ...I was told that no one had done this before, that it was not recommended for any customer, and skeptically prodded as if in attempts to uncover that I lacked the qualities and smartphone use cases that make one human.
3. Anger & Bargaining- ...As one of the employees started setting up the phone for me, another came over, asked what model it was, and snickered loudly before saying how sh&@$#y the outdated messaging system was on the phone. I begrudgingly sat through spiels on several other models that didn't fit my requirement of 'just no apps'.
4. "Depression", Reflection, Loneliness- ...The 4 employees started talking amongst themselves in a ring about the old days, before any of them had a smartphone. There were noticeable pauses and head tilts throughout the conversation. I had been here an hour at this point.
5. The Upward Turn- ...They handed me the phone and one even said he envied me and wished me good luck.
6. Reconstruction & Working Through- ...I signed the contract and they showed me how to do wi-fi calling, cellular, and send messages, the only features I had wanted in the first place.
7. Acceptance & Hope- ...The employee who originally helped me said I "just had" to email him back to tell him what it was like on the "outside".
It was the most surreal experience, a basic exchange of products and services that from the perspective of everyone around me was akin to renouncing my citizenship.
by vuyani on 1/9/18, 7:50 AM
by xster on 1/8/18, 9:29 PM
i.e. once a month, you get a Gmail or iPhone admin notice that says: "This month, these 4 new apps you installed and there 3 new domains started trying to send you app notifications and mailing list emails. Here are the categories of notifications and a few samples. Do you allow them to continue communicating with you?"
by digitalsanctum on 1/8/18, 8:57 PM
Now I feel only slightly better that I'm not paying for my bad habit and still guilty about the addiiction and associated "damage to my mind".
by User23 on 1/9/18, 10:58 PM
by joubert on 1/9/18, 5:08 AM
by notadoc on 1/8/18, 11:20 PM
I know several families who have transitioned to all dumbphones, and the only thing they report missing after a while is a having a decent camera on hand.
by Shinchy on 1/9/18, 10:49 AM
by andrewgleave on 1/9/18, 9:48 AM
Parents could give their kids the device which (deepening on settings or detection of compulsive use) would actively restrict their screen time.
by baxtr on 1/8/18, 8:18 PM
by dboreham on 1/8/18, 8:33 PM
by appleflaxen on 1/8/18, 10:39 PM
It used to be rock and roll.
Before that it was dungeons and dragons.
Trace it back far enough, and you get to the moral panic when people started reading books.
the fear of new technologies is a cyclical phenomenon. maybe one day the fear will be well-placed, but the historical record suggests that contemporary individuals can't tell the difference.
by Stranger43 on 1/8/18, 9:12 PM
"""If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks."""
And just as Plato had a point but missed a greater one something similar might be said about the campaign against the a decentralized authority free media landscape that seams to be replacing it.
Were kind of seeing a kind of trend where every new media invention goes though a cycle of hype and fear towards a new normal and usually a new political and cultural structure. And i suspect that a lot of the "fear" is at least partially a part of that process.
Not to be said that smartphones are different from for instance newspapers in having serious and dangerous problems* but it's equally dangerous to respond to new by trying to preserve an equally broken old model for information/entertainment distribution.
*Remember the Maine?
by n2dasun on 1/9/18, 2:44 AM
by msaad99 on 1/8/18, 10:31 PM
by uhhhhhhh on 1/8/18, 10:58 PM
Television has worked this way for a long time, all media and advertising has worked on the same principals.
Instead of pretending this is "new and scary", we should be focusing on understanding the impacts and limits, and how much is too much, rather than this grey and white false narrative that smartphones are somehow solely responsible for the increasingly intrusive advertisements and attention grabbing reality we've been constructing for decades longer than smartphones have been around.
by scotty79 on 1/9/18, 3:39 AM
by davidjnelson on 1/9/18, 7:42 AM
by ianai on 1/9/18, 4:49 AM
by zpatel on 1/9/18, 1:21 AM
by noja on 1/8/18, 9:49 PM
by myaso on 1/8/18, 9:12 PM
by ubik on 1/8/18, 8:13 PM
by fogzen on 1/8/18, 11:41 PM
> "What does "deeply interesting" mean? It means stuff that teaches you about the world."
This article teaches us nothing.