from Hacker News

A 'third way' between buying or renting? Swiss co-ops say they've found it

by lifeisstillgood on 8/31/25, 5:26 PM with 53 comments

  • by wslh on 8/31/25, 5:50 PM

  • by awongh on 8/31/25, 5:55 PM

    This article is really low on actual facts about how these co-ops can actually operate.

    I feel like the problem in the US isn't necessarily that the government won't directly pay for these kinds of things like they do in Switzerland, but that it's very very hard to finance a co-op, possibly illegal (that is, you wouldn't have the same legal protections a condo does).

    I would be curious to see the finances of the buildings they mention in the article. Assuming that you could arrange the two major financial aspects: 1) financing at a level of a normal home loan 2) cut out the real estate developer profit margin, I wonder if a co-op model would become viable in the US.

    Edit to add: Intuitively it seems like the math could work out, if you figure that a co-op takes the appreciation of the real estate out of the picture for the people living there, and that being able to rebalance that lost value towards the initial cost or towards future costs would be a trade-off normal people would be willing to make.

    In that sense a co-op is more like an alternative to renting rather than an alternative to home ownership.

  • by mg on 8/31/25, 6:05 PM

        his apartment ... two bedrooms, a small office, a
    south-facing balcony and it costs 1,760 francs
    (about $2,200) a month, around half the typical rents
    I always find it impossible to grasp/compare rents if there is no mention of the size of the apartment. For all I know, this could be a 60m² apartment with 3 smallish rooms which goes for something like half of that price in Berlin:

    https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/161188147

    Or it could be a luxurious 300m² apartment with 3 big rooms that goes for three time that price:

    https://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/157476995

  • by mamonster on 8/31/25, 8:20 PM

    It's all fun and games, but you need to remember that this is Canton Vaud, one of the most fiscally irresponsible cantons/states in all of Switzerland. The article briefly mentions is, but a lot of this "cooperative" housing is heavily subsidized by the canton itself (the article mentions the cheaper 99-year lease but it goes way beyond that) and the resulting shortfall in money is paid for by other people (i.e 100,000CHF yearly income in Vaud is the massive marginal tax wall in Vaud). I've still, to this day, not managed to find out any detail about how these apartments are valued for the purpose of the VD wealth taxes (You can impute house price based on comparatives or rent, here obviously rent would be lower).

  • by ExxKA on 8/31/25, 6:09 PM

    This is a big thing in Denmark and has been for several generations.

    https://da.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andelsboligforening

    The issue with them is that the loans to build the properties are socialised, so if the other members can not pay the debt, the entire loan is the responsibility of those members who can.

    Also, the incentives of a cheaper than market rate flat, means that corruption and nepotism is rampant in those buildings.

    It is not pretty in practice.

  • by fxtentacle on 8/31/25, 6:05 PM

    This is becoming more popular in Germany, too. In effect, future renters pool their money into a non-profit which will then build affordable housing, to be owned and inhabited by them.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_cooperative

  • by Refreeze5224 on 8/31/25, 7:03 PM

    It is refreshing to see one of the most vital elements to human survival treated as just that, rather than a mere commodity like gold, to be bought and sold with a focus on equity and profit.

    This does not and has never made sense, in the same way that only buying food with an eye towards someday making a profit from it does not make sense.

    It does make sense within our current economic system, which sadly does not make any distinction between the fundamental requirements of human life, and all other products or commodities. We all are worse off for not being able to see the difference and separate the two.

  • by simne on 8/31/25, 8:29 PM

    Well, this so called "third way", as I know appear in US as private elder care infrastructure, or as charity.

    When somebody become so weak (ill or old), cannot care for himself and unfortunately have no family, they could ask to local private care to live in their specialized hostel. And it is not always just ordinary hostel with one room for 5 persons, but some are more like classic motels, with rooms for two persons.

    Also, similar infrastructure existed for a long time in Italy, under Catholics church, and I know few good young people, who grown there.

    As I know in Northern Europe (Sweden), there are many community buildings (under municipalities), very cheap to rent and even possible to get social donations and not pay at all.

    Existed also non-church homes with similar economy (and also not designed as charity), but their examples are not always good. For example, Pruitt–Igoe in St. Louis, Missouri, United States, becomes huge crime center. Other not good example, some bad districts in exUSSR (for example Biryulyovo in Moscow, or Orekhovo-Zuyevo in Moscow Oblast, Russia), also known for their criminal level.

    From Pruitt–Igoe experience, people created few rules about so called social homes, and one rule, they must be non-comfortable, to motivate people to grow to commercial rentals or even to once buy own home; second, should be some power, who will constantly monitor residents for crime and immediately deport offenders. So they are not "Third way", they are just temporary solution of very old problem, and not easy solution, even not cheap.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe

  • by daft_pink on 8/31/25, 8:06 PM

    I’ve found in my work with clients is that generally multi ownership in real estate means significantly lower investment returns.

    Generally selling a single piece of real estate that you entirely control has the highest investment returns. Things like condos are always competing with each other and coops can be even worse.

    Maybe it’s more affordable because it has super low investment returns.

  • by pstuart on 8/31/25, 5:47 PM

    This should be embraced in the US as well. And we need it now, more than ever because of how the price of housing has jumped so much and will only get worse as private equity continues to hoover up housing stock.

  • by ori_b on 8/31/25, 5:46 PM

    Oh. Company towns.