from Hacker News

That Secret Service SIM farm story is bogus

by sixhobbits on 9/24/25, 8:24 AM with 622 comments

Previously: Cache of devices capable of crashing cell network is found in NYC - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45345514 - Sept 2025 (283 comments)
  • by gaoshan on 9/24/25, 2:31 PM

    There is so much to address in this post but I want to look at just this part: "One of the reasons we know this story is bogus is because of the New York Times story which cites anonymous officials, “speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation”. That’s not a thing, that’s not a valid reason to grant anonymity under normal journalistic principles. It’s the “Washington Game” of “official leaks”, disseminating propaganda without being held accountable."

    It is not accurate to claim "that's not a thing". Citing anonymous sources is a long established practice (in particular when it comes to law enforcement activities or potentially sensitive political reporting). The NYT has formal editorial standards around the identity of anonymous sources that require editors to assess the justification for applying it. It doesn't mean the information is reliable, that's where an editorial eye comes into play, but it does fall under the category of normal journalistic practice.

    Next the "Washington Game": there’s a grain of truth here, but it is overstated. Yes, leaks can be part of a strategic move by politicians and it can be a source of exploitation by political operators but to equate all anonymous sourcing with propaganda is misleading. Plenty of such reporting has resulted in significant truths being revealed and powerful people being held accountable (Watergate, the Pentagon Papers, Abu Ghraib). Responsible reporting involves weighing a source's motivations as well as corroborating and contextualizing that information as accurately and truthfully as possible.

    The author's dismissiveness oversimplifies (or mischaracterizes, if I am being less generous) the reason and function of anonymity here. They overstate the issue with propaganda and anonymous sources. Accurate in the sense that anonymity can enable propaganda (it has happened), it is inaccurate in its absolutism.

    I feel like this sort of tone, with the absolutism, the attempt to reduce the complexity and nuance of reporting to the point where it can be dismissed is pretty typical of what passes for commentary in today's blog/tweet/commentary culture but it really plays more into the hands of those that would sow confusion and mistrust than it does into that of the truth and accuracy.

  • by aedocw on 9/24/25, 2:13 PM

    There is a lawyer (Alec Karakatsanis) who has been writing about police driven propaganda for years. His recent book "Copaganda" is fantastic. He carefully breaks down how major papers (NYT is chief among them) create stories that fit a narrative by using very one-sided sources. Like an article on crime written in bad faith where the only people quotes are police, police consultants, and ex-police.

    It's a really good book, I wish more people were aware of it and read it.

  • by alansammarone on 9/24/25, 10:45 AM

    I felt slightly...hm...confused when reading this. When I see something in the news, to the degree that I trust the source, I see it only as a statement of fact, and unless I trust the commentator, I ignore the comment. I only expect descriptive accuracy from the news. This sometimes requires resources that individuals don't generally have.

    When I read a personal blog article articulating a personal opinion, presenting evidence and trying to make a case for their conclusion, I usually apply a different standard. From them, I expect sound reasoning, which often requires a form of independence/neutrality that news organizations don't have.

    And let's just say this article is not exactly structured as a sequence of QEDs, so to speak. It doesn't seem like the conclusions follow from the premisses. That's not to say it's wrong, just that if it is right, it would be in part by accident.

  • by sbarre on 9/24/25, 1:09 PM

    This whole thing reminds me of the 90s when the government would bust some 16 year old hacker kid in his suburban bedroom who was abusing a PBX, and then parade him around like they'd arrested Lex Luthor (the cartoon villain, not the actual hacker) and prevented a global crisis.
  • by bilekas on 9/24/25, 10:16 AM

    > That’s not a thing, that’s not a valid reason to grant anonymity under normal journalistic principles. It’s the “Washington Game” of “official leaks”, disseminating propaganda without being held accountable.

    Yeah makes a lot of sense when framed like this, the timing of the secret service of all people busting this 'huge' operation was far too suspicious.

  • by bArray on 9/24/25, 10:32 AM

    If the objective is to knock out cell towers, just jam them. It's clearly a SIM farm for middle-man communications. It just happened to be close to where the UN were.
  • by nikcub on 9/24/25, 10:30 AM

    Paying for residential / mobile proxy[0] traffic for scraping is becoming more common - this is what I always imagined the other end of the mobile part looked like.

    [0] https://oxylabs.io/products/mobile-proxies

  • by Animats on 9/24/25, 8:11 PM

    Cell phone farm devices are a thing. Here's one you can buy on Alibaba.[1] This is a little more pro looking than the ones seen in New York. It's 20 phones in a 2U rackmount case. Costs $1880, including the phones. Cheap shipping, too.

    Lots of variations available. Vertical stack, different brands of Android phones, rackmount, server racks for thousands of phones, software for clicking on ads, training videos. "No code".

    Product info:

    "only provide box for development or testing use.pls do not use it for illegal"

    Description

    Package

    Each Box purchase includes the hardware (20 Phone motherboard ,USB cable, box power cord, phone motherboard +advanced control management software (15days free,after that $38 a year) download software from our website (in the video)

    Whats is Box Phone Farm ? It is a piece of equipment that removes the phone screen/battery/camera/sim slot, integrates them into a chassis, and works with click farm software to achieve group control functions. 1 box contains 20 mobile phone motherboards. Install the click farm software on your computer and you can do batch operations.

    Function:

    Install the Click Farm software on your PC, and you can operate the device in batches or operate a mobile phone individually. Only one person can control 20 mobile phones at the same time, perform the same task, or perform different tasks separately, and easily build a network matrix of thousands of mobile phones. As long as it is an online project that mobile phone users participate in, they can participate in the control. The voltage support 110v- 220V, and when running the game all the time, one box only consumes about 100 watts.

    Ethernet:

    [OTG/LAN] can use USB mode, and can also use the network cable of the router to connect the box.Two connection modes can be switched.

    [1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/S22-Server-Rack-S8-Bo...

  • by JdeBP on 9/24/25, 9:33 AM

    The https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45345514 discussion has indeed raised all of the same points.
  • by neuronexmachina on 9/24/25, 6:55 PM

    Reading between the lines, my guess is something like this happened:

    * some of the US government officials protected by the Secret Service were the targets of swatting

    * the USSS found the swatting calls were anonymized by a SIM Farm in/near NYC

    * their investigation of the SIM Farm found "300 co-located SIM servers and 100,000 SIM cards across multiple sites"

    * it could have hypothetically been used for swatting officials at the UN General Assembly, but that seems to be conjecture by the Secret Service, rather than anything they actually have evidence of

    Does that seem consistent with what we know?

  • by topspin on 9/24/25, 12:05 PM

    So if some rando were to just find one of these huge SIM farms, who could they call, and would anything be done?

    With the number of radios seen in the photos from the original story, there must have been a great deal of SMS from that structure. That is very easy to spot with low cost equipment: a TinySA[1] and a directional antenna should be sufficient. Hams do "fox hunting" with similarly basic equipment.

    Given the resources of cell operators, the most charitable explanation for how something like this can exist for more than a brief interval is total indifference.

    [1] The more recent versions ($150+) are pretty powerful and can see all 4G/5G bands.

  • by caseysoftware on 9/24/25, 12:54 PM

    > One of the reasons we know this story is bogus is because of the New York Times story which cites anonymous officials, “speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation”.

    Yes, we should be skeptical of anything that is entirely sources from anonymous sources.. even if they align with what we want to believe.

    And further, I'd love to see reporters start burning sources that lie to them. After all, the source is risking/destroying the reporter's credibility along the way. Unfortunately, we'll never see that as it's all an access game.

  • by BillTthree on 9/24/25, 2:18 PM

    Does anyone know what crime is being investigated? It looks like the malicious activity was sending spam text messages and forwarding international phone calls. Is there a federal regulation against sending spam messages?

    Is it somehow illegal to have many sim cards in the same place as having many radios?

    The telco's are also capable of bringing down the network, and they are legally allowed to turn their services off. Its not government infrastructure, its a business. If the backbone ISP providers decided to turn off their services for an area for a time, thats fine, there are contractual provisions to deal with that. its not a crime.

    There has been no mention of arrest, was this 'crime' perpetrated by the infamous hackerman in ablack hoodie?

  • by immibis on 9/24/25, 9:46 AM

    First thing I thought when reading it. This story makes no sense. Nothing they mentioned in the article is actually illegal. Having lots of phones (even in a rack-mount form factor) isn't illegal. Even if the phone network could conceivably be DoSed with that many phones all calling at once, it's not illegal unless you actually do that or intend to do it. And their other justification was that this equipment could be used to send anonymous or encrypted communications - that's not illegal either. Even this government hasn't gotten to the point of making encryption illegal.
  • by Johnny555 on 9/24/25, 9:31 PM

    I knew they were overhyping the National Security/United Nations impact when they said it was 35 miles from the UN building, in the NYC area there must be hundreds if not thousands of cell sites in that 35 miles. They certainly weren't targeting the UN building.
  • by rs186 on 9/24/25, 12:28 PM

    One comment I saw elsewhere: why didn't we see an announcement of an arrest by FBI at the same time this story came out?

    Now I know why.

  • by picafrost on 9/24/25, 3:59 PM

    I fully agree the narrative is nonsense, the ways, means, and timing of the story is suspect, but I don't buy the "don't trust those experts, trust me, I'm the expert" vibe of this article. Criminal enterprises and nation states aren't mutually exclusive.
  • by t1234s on 9/24/25, 12:16 PM

    I thought it looked suspicious how neat the cabling was done and cables taped down to the floor to prevent tripping hazards. This would most likely not be the case for a one-time event.
  • by hk1337 on 9/24/25, 10:18 AM

    Both scenarios could be right?

    It could be just a scam bot farm but a scam bot farm with the intention of targeting vulnerable UN delegates with scams not necessarily to disrupt any cell tower?

  • by 2OEH8eoCRo0 on 9/24/25, 1:04 PM

    Everyone is debunking a claim that wasn't made.

    > The Secret Service dismantled a network of more than 300 SIM servers and 100,000 SIM cards in the New York-area that were capable of crippling telecom systems and carrying out anonymous telephonic attacks, disrupting the threat before world leaders arrived for the UN General Assembly

    > that were capable of

    They didn't say this is what it was used for but that it was capable of doing so. Are we sure that's false? It sounds correct that the equipment is capable of such things.

  • by giantg2 on 9/24/25, 11:17 AM

    The story isn't bogus, it's just blown out of proportion. That's unfortunately how most news articles work, especially ones related to crime. The ironic part is that this article is just as much "bogus" with the assumptions it's making.
  • by daft_pink on 9/24/25, 3:13 PM

    It really seemed bogus to me, but also assumed that the Secret Service had evidence of criminal behavior that wasn’t publicized which this essentially confirms.
  • by choutos on 9/24/25, 10:14 AM

    First thing that came to my mind was SimFarm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimFarm). And I was really confused.
  • by photochemsyn on 9/24/25, 4:38 PM

    Given the reluctance of the US government to name the actors behind this apparently quite real sim farm, Israel would be the top suspect?

    https://apnews.com/article/unga-sim-farm-threat-explainer-52...

  • by mcintyre1994 on 9/24/25, 10:47 AM

    If it is PR then it seems a bit odd. I suspect most people would care way more about them busting an SMS spam farm than protecting the communications of people at the UN. Maybe it has a specific intended audience, but protecting a UN meeting they're hosting is kinda assumed so I'm not sure who would give them much credit here.
  • by numpad0 on 9/24/25, 12:15 PM

    This is odd, considering Stingray type devices in back of rideshares targeting phones by IMEI in developed countries is definitely real. But this article doesn't sound bogus, either. One plausible theory is that it was a closest plausible scapegoat that the authority could find, which isn't confidence inspiring.
  • by ale42 on 9/24/25, 9:59 AM

    Great to see that I'm not the only one thinking that the espionage story is totally bogus.
  • by rob_c on 9/24/25, 11:57 AM

    "an actual jacket like myself"... That's _sigh_ you're doing the thing that you're ranting at the agency for doing. At best you'd be an experienced pen tester in the tech industry, which is still good. Don't try to pretend you're living in a Hollywood drama.

    We get it you have some political bent and don't like those in charge, but given the professionalism of the setup you don't know how quickly it was setup. If the place was rented last month that _is_ a $1M investment all up front. If it's over time it's still a professional setup all the same by people looking to abuse the system in some way or other for profit. I.e. unknown threat actor until proved proven otherwise.

    Honestly picking at a public body bigging up the work they do for the public isn't worth a rant. If this was close enough to the UN buildings and Embassy's to cause a problem then yes. That becomes an international issue. Do you honestly think if this was just a scam farm they wouldn't take money from someone else to burn the thing and turn the city into a circus?

    Besides if this was an agency with tech skill but limited funding, like a certain northern province in Asia, they'd bankroll it by scamming to start anyway wouldn't they.

  • by mnemotronic on 9/24/25, 7:43 PM

    I'm a little vague on how this works.

    So the "bad guys" have loads of SIM cards installed into machines that can make calls or send SMS text messages, right? Doesn't each SIM card require an account with a cell phone provider in order to access "the phone network"? If not then are they getting free cell service and how do I sign up with that (ahem) provider? If so then how were those sim cards paid for? Can we follow the money?

  • by cryptoegorophy on 9/24/25, 5:21 PM

    If this is not a red flag to stop reading the news I don’t know what else is. If you know a little about SIM card industry, calls, spam sms, verification farms then you can clearly tell that this is that kind of farm and seeing that news you start to question all other spoonfed news.
  • by DonHopkins on 9/24/25, 7:50 PM

    Maybe they were going to use them to hack Google Maps and fake traffic jams!

    An Artist Used 99 Phones to Fake a Google Maps Traffic Jam:

    https://www.wired.com/story/99-phones-fake-google-maps-traff...

    Google Maps Hacks by Simon Weckert

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5eL_al_m7Q

    >99 smartphones are transported in a handcart to generate virtual traffic jam in Google Maps.Through this activity, it is possible to turn a green street red which has an impact in the physical world by navigating cars on another route to avoid being stuck in traffic. #googlemapshacks

  • by nailer on 9/24/25, 2:26 PM

    > using radio “triangulation” (sic)

    Why is triangulation an error?

  • by ChoGGi on 9/24/25, 12:48 PM

    Ok, that's not the Sim Farm I expected.
  • by PLenz on 9/24/25, 10:00 AM

    I mean yeah, it was kinda obvious that they busted an ad fraud sim farm but needed to pad that resume for the bosses. There's no glory in "just" fighting fraud right now.
  • by slashdave on 9/24/25, 10:57 PM

    I was kinda puzzled by the story of this setup, with all these antennas, and then "35 miles from UN". Um... those aren't those kind of antennas...
  • by joecool1029 on 9/24/25, 4:59 PM

    I haven't seen it suggested so I might as well say it: What if that equipment was actually being used by election campaigns to spam phones with election ads?
  • by johann8384 on 9/25/25, 7:43 PM

    Well, yeah, the pictures they included with the articles is a sim farm with devices available on a TOR site the same way you lease space on a server with EC2.

    So, it maybe could have been used to initiate a TDoS attack if someone rented the capacity but that's not what it was there for. They caught a subcontractor and they want us to think they caught a kingpin.

  • by jacquesm on 9/24/25, 4:16 PM

    That story was overblown. But it wasn't bogus. SIM farms exist, this was one of them and it definitely wasn't put there for the general good of the population. They're common enough that the UK has specific legislation targeting acquisition and use of these devices.

    Which parts of the story were embellished and who they were embellished by is an interesting question but the degree to which the original story being bogus is balanced out nicely by the degree to which this article (and the overblown title) itself is bogus.

    The facts: a SIM farm was discovered. It had a very large number of active SIMS. It was found in NYC. It was active when it was found.

    What is speculative/hard to verify:

    It was used for specific swatting attempts. It was put there by nation state level actors rather than just ordinary criminals.

    What is most likely bullshit:

    That it had anything to do with the UN headquarters being close by.

    But that still leaves plenty of meat on the bone.

  • by rooftopzen on 9/24/25, 4:50 PM

    I've spent about an hour a week on this since Jan. Traced a large % of bogus news stories this year back to Reuters (fwiw) before they are picked up by other outlets and spread.

    I've found legitimate stories also sourced from Reuters, but haven't found illegitimate stories NOT sourced from Reuters (in other words, they seem to originate from the same source, not sure why)

  • by tptacek on 9/24/25, 3:23 PM

    Seems like kind of a long way to say something that everybody had already here had already figured out in the comment threads when the original story ran. I'm not sure you need all the journalism kremlinology to say "these are normal devices used by organizations that do mass phone and message operations".
  • by pkphilip on 9/24/25, 2:30 PM

    Reminds me of the time when I consulted with a very large newspaper chain in the US which owned a lot of papers - both left leaning and right leaning. we used to get feeds from all of the usual sources.

    But the news articles themselves were "massaged" in various ways by some of the same editorial teams to suit the left-leaning or the right-leaning newspapers. The idea that completely different spin can be put to the same news - and by the same editorial teams, was a big eye opener for me.

    What this taught me is that the media's primary role is to polarise people to either the left or the right so that they can be herded to vote along or act along prescribed lines. What the media and the establishment hates are people who are not either left or right leaning and who are capable of picking and choosing the narrative depending on what makes the most sense - that is, the so called centrists.

    But here we are more than 2 decades later from that time and I see that the spin doctors are busier than ever and the "centrists" have almost completely disappeared.

  • by Havoc on 9/24/25, 10:56 AM

    Interesting. When I read the story I was wondering how banks of sims allow for eavesdropping
  • by stefan_ on 9/24/25, 10:37 AM

    You know I dont really care to "set the story straight" on lowlifes with a million modems for scams or spam or what other possible activities these were up to that are a guaranteed net negative to this world.
  • by aryan14 on 9/24/25, 4:42 PM

    Was thinking about this the entire time, not sure why they’re saying it has to be govt sponsored threat actors for a bunch of SIM cards

    Didn’t understand how it’d be used for espionage either, doesn’t even make sense

  • by metalman on 9/24/25, 11:36 AM

    sim farms are also used for certain types of seo optimisation and generating organic traffic and is a systematic way of generating infuence, much the same as the ways publication mentioned does it
  • by duxup on 9/24/25, 12:55 PM

    I'm inclined to agree with the premise of the article.

    There's no reason your super evil plan to knock out cell service couldn't just sit hidden.

    Rather this just seems like a criminal scam setup that got caught.

  • by toader on 9/24/25, 3:03 PM

    Is it a fair accusation that the "NYTimes is lying"? That seems to imply they are complicit in a propaganda campaign with the government, which seems unlikely.
  • by avazhi on 9/24/25, 5:45 PM

    > New York Times story which cites anonymous officials, “speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation”. That’s not a thing, that’s not a valid reason to grant anonymity under normal journalistic principles

    Stopped reading right here. That is a completely valid reason to talk to the media and happens quite often only under that specific condition.

  • by phh on 9/24/25, 9:36 AM

    I'm curious why they are using actual modems rather than just doing it with VoWifi that merely requires a SIM card reader (pretty much just an UART)
  • by dumbfounder on 9/24/25, 1:26 PM

    Seems like it would be easy for phone companies to locate SIM farms, no? They can triangulate based on the zillion texts coming from one location?
  • by mcswell on 9/24/25, 1:53 PM

    Speaking to the Secret Service agent who found this: "These aren't the SIMs you're looking for."
  • by ck2 on 9/24/25, 2:58 PM

    btw the escalator and teleprompter story being sabotage was also bogus

    https://newrepublic.com/post/200833/trump-team-messed-up-un-...

  • by pt9567 on 9/24/25, 7:12 PM

    fwiw - these sim machines are heavily used by ticket brokers who get unique phone numbers and tie them to ticketmaster accounts and then gets tons of verified fan codes for concerts for big tours. the big brokers import lots of these from aliexpress.
  • by ilyazub on 9/24/25, 10:42 AM

    Wow, government-led mobile proxy network. Did they attempt to build a search index? :-)
  • by danlugo92 on 9/24/25, 5:26 PM

    Where's the list and where's the prosecution of the people on that list?
  • by SilverBirch on 9/24/25, 10:44 AM

    >Who are you going to trust, these Washington insiders, “people who matter”, or an actual hacker like myself?

    To be honest, with the contents of the post, probably neither. It's fine if you want to point at different sources and go "ooooh WEF" and make scare quotes with your hands, but that's not actually evidence it's just a description of your existing bias.

    Frankly, the overstating of the threat in the original article is frankly about as bad as the overstating of the article being bogus. The feds shut down some sim farm. Is is a massive national security threat? Probably no, that's a bit of an overstatement. The NYTimes ran a clickbaity article, is it bogus? Probably no, that's a bit of an overstatement.

    I don't understand why people like this get so wound up by the way places like the NYTimes write up articles. This is the way journalism is written, you don't write articles that say "X happened, but it's probably fine!". You write "X happened, and it could have Y impact!". People are smart enough to read the article and understand, we don't need you making baseless accusations about their sourcing.

  • by brokenmachine on 9/26/25, 1:27 AM

    Is there an rss feed for this blog?
  • by labrador on 9/24/25, 2:53 PM

    The Trump Secret Service is not a trustworthy institution based on the fact that they "accidentally" erased all their comms from Jan 6th 2021
  • by sidewndr46 on 9/24/25, 12:31 PM

    Why spend the effort to refute this? No one who is going to believe the original story is going to believe this.
  • by _1tem on 9/25/25, 6:28 AM

    Now I understand what Chomsky was saying when he said most mainstream news media in the West is just propaganda.
  • by fidotron on 9/24/25, 10:32 AM

    It's actually a combination of warning and bait, and it's not the first story like that nor will it be the last. Picking at the details of it misses the point.

    The real question here is who and what it was intended to warn off, and you'll never get a real answer to that.

  • by krunger on 9/24/25, 2:04 PM

    And china writes a blog entry on substack. And now hacker news and ycombinator are on the Chinese side of things, along with their bots. Downvoting and shadow banning. What else is new?
  • by raverbashing on 9/24/25, 11:20 AM

    > Technically, it may even be legitimate enterprise, being simply a gateway between a legitimate VoIP provider and the mobile phone network.

    No. This is not how any of this works

    Just use SIP?

  • by didntknowyou on 9/27/25, 1:04 PM

    in the original article they had to do explain the threat carefully to help guide their readers go through the same mental gymnastics loops to reach their absurb conclusion.
  • by roody15 on 9/24/25, 12:09 PM

    Once a Chinese grad student explained to me a difference he noted between Chinese and American citizens. He said in China no really reads or watches 24/7 major news outlets in China. They are fully aware that all of it is propaganda and just go about their life. He said Americans seem to get really emotional over content in the press and seem to really struggle with the idea of propaganda / journalism in the news.

    I tend to agree with student, NYT and major news outlets are clearly used for propaganda and if you sit back and look at it from perhaps another angle it makes sense , why wouldn’t a world super power with a massive government apparatus use media to influence and control citizen behavior?

    So yes the anonymous experts, the anonymous intelligence experts, the experts on CNN panels .. etc etc. It’s the government pushing a narrative for a purpose. My two cents live your life and spend your precious emotional energy for the people you care about around you. Do things in your local community and help when and where you can.

  • by gsibble on 9/24/25, 4:02 PM

    You do realize practically everything every bad said about Trump was the same anonymous sourcing?

    I don't like when people are inconsistent with how they apply standards.

  • by hdjdndndba on 9/24/25, 9:51 AM

    What's with substackers these days putting hideous ai images on every other article?
  • by gootz on 9/24/25, 1:00 PM

    So, I should get fewer texts from random numbers asking 'hi, wanna grab coffee? I'm definitely not here to steal your kidney' /s
  • by throwmeaway222 on 9/24/25, 2:32 PM

    Can we perma-block nytimes since we discovered it's gov propoganda:

    https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nytimes.com

  • by CodeWriter23 on 9/24/25, 2:49 PM

    The author does not dispute devices were found. Author expresses a belief it was controlled by a criminal enterprise. Author then claims to understand the intent of said enterprise.

    The pattern: 1. Corroborate fact. 2. Pose plausible cause of fact. 3. Present unsubstantiated claim as fact.

    Sounds like propaganda to me.